Material Measurement of Diabetes?

When I think of a cure, I think victory. But the discussion question distracting me today is, Is a cure really a measurement of success, pass or fail?

My thought process is running along the lines of... A cure shows how far diabetes has come, not diabetics. So at the same time I feel the urge to push for a cure, to feel that victory, is it really a victory for more than medical science? I've fought hard to achieve the health I have. I continue to work for it; so cure or no cure, haven't I already won?

I'm just curious what others' thoughts on this are. I hope the question is clear enough :)

[quote user="Alyssa"]

 I've fought hard to achieve the health I have. I continue to work for it; so cure or no cure, haven't I already won?


I couldn't have said it any better Alyssa. Amazing post :)

Rather than just medical science, I think a cure represents a victory for society as long as it can be used.  Publishing a paper might be a scientific victory, but application is societal victory.

If "winning" is trying your hardest to lead a healthy life, then I hope most of us are winning.  A cure would not excuse anyone from keeping up a healthy lifestyle (health is a journey not a destination).  However, diabetes is a big obstacle toward reaching the maximum level of health for someone.  In this sense, curing diabetes is winning or increases the odds of winning.  I guess it depends on whether you value effort, results, or both.  Thanks Alyssa, you always have thought-provoking posts.

Would you consider not achieving a cure being a loss? Do we only win if we cure?

To win, by definition, is "to succeed by striving or effort." A victory is "a success or superior position achieved against any opponent, opposition, difficulty, etc."

So, considering the cure, would winning and the victory be in being cured? I have a few different thoughts on this myself. One being that there are two 'win's, both of which should be respected seperately. One in regard to posessing a cure, in which case that would be a complete, utter win over diabetes. The second, taking place literally today at which point we have no cure, 'win' being more just success in treatment, being at the best point of health we know how to achieve, etc.

Which leads me to another thought that perhaps the cure is the victory, but the treatment is success?

Any thoughts?

[quote user="Alyssa"]

Would you consider not achieving a cure being a loss? Do we only win if we cure?


No and no.

I think pretty much like you stated in the first post if you are doing all you can with what you have, then you are winning :)



But are we winning or are we succeeding? When I think 'win,' I think complete victory.

 As in, for instance, one cannot take off a set of handcuffs. To 'win' in that situation, one would be able to take them off at one point, thus beating it 100%. But succeeding, however, would be instead, for example, simply moving on while one wears the cuffs. See what I mean?

That a win would be a cure, or getting them off all the way. But succeeding, like with diabetes treatment, would be good health, or simply walking/moving on while one continues to wear the handcuffs. Sorry for the analogy :)

[quote user="Eric_Carpenter"]

Thanks Alyssa, you always have thought-provoking posts.


Thank you guys! I appreciate the responses, and all the brains behind them. Thought-provoking questions is how I'm trained in school :) Which sounds a tad extreme, but I kid you not that I am graded on the depth, etc. of discussion questions. Not that I mind it - I enjoy pondering these sorts of things :)

I really don't take it as personally as all that... Remember a couple of inspirational if not cheesy cliche's...

1. "It is not about if you win or lose, but rather how you play the game"


2. "It is not about the Destination, but rather the Journey"

For me in the long run the Cure is not the end all and be all.  You will still have to take good care of yourself if you want to be a healthy person.  So for me, taking care of myself is the journey and cure or not I will continue to do so.

Hm. That's an interesting point, Kate. (this is what I hate, I'm so on the fence that I've already posted... 3 or 4 (?) different positions... and here comes another one)

In which case a cure could be like a milestone kind of, just like another supporting factor of the fact we have won/succeeded??

Alyssa, you remind me of myself around your age in your existential turmoil only at your age I did not have anything as specific as Diabetes yet to dwell on.  At that age "The Cure" for me was just a band.  At 30, I really only try to measure success in terms of happiness... I am an active person, but certainly not competitive.  To say that we have "won" would indicate that there is some sort of competition.  If indeed this is a competition then who are we competing against?  

Assuming it is: diabetes

That response made me feel happy. I, in my 33 year old mindset, am right with Kate. I appreciate the post. I think T1 can be a great outlet, of a sort, for those with a competitive streak...sort of a self-conditioning through rewards of a sort...but complications are not a loss...lousy days...irritability. I feel a sense of victory when I can laugh, loudly. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I got through a day and fell asleep that to work, taught some good classes...reached a student...cleaned the cat pans...made a reasonable contribution to the world in which I live...I feel really good when I also managed to walk the dog until she was so tired that when she came home, after lapping up some water, she flopped on the couch and slept through the night...and I feel great when I have done my part...a cure...I feel weird about a cure. I won't believe it is a cure until it is permitted to all T1's. And if I have a part in that eventual battle and victory, I will feel as though my life has tangible meaning.

[quote user="Alyssa"]

Assuming it is: diabetes


I guess I never have considered a disease, Diabetes, a competitor or opponent...  It is too much a part of me to visualize it as something separate.  Also though it seems like it does, at times, it does not have a will or mind of its own.  ie. you may want a victory over Diabetes, but Diabetes has no "agenda" to have a victory over you.  It is a part of you.

In some ways I find that true, relating that to myself, Kate. However I also feel that even if I feel I've improved from experiencing diabetes, it isn't a friend. I have never thought of it as something that works with me, but instead something I work against. For me, it is, in so many words, an opponent I suppose. This is just my personal opinion; I understand that others' feel differently.

You are correct, it most certainly is not a friend.  But it has no more of an appetite for your destruction than a kitchen knife.  It is dangerous and must be treated with care, but it has no "desire" to do battle with you.  It is what it is, neither friend nor foe.  I feel like you might be endowing this disease with human emotions.  


By the way, Alyssa, in no way am I arguing with you, I am just enjoying this indulgent philosophical banter, it is a nice departure from what is going on in some of the other forums currently. :)

[quote user="Kate"]it is a nice departure from what is going on in some of the other forums currently. :)[/quote]

If you're referring to the same forums I've been following, then I completely agree. It's starting to become a bit irritating. (=

     Since there is no cure yet, but our Diabetes is being treated, you could say we are on the road to victory.

True in the respects that to oppose something, that 'thing' must oppose you as well. But (maybe not by direct definition of...) couldn't the disease still be seen as what we fight against?

And yes, I probably am endowing it with human emotions :) But. Sorry :)

Alright, I'm dragging poetry elements into this now, but assuming we personify diabetes couldn't it then be opposing diabetics? I understand that it literally can't work for your distruction, but (to me at least) it is still what is worked against. I apologize that I explain this so badly, I'm hoping it makes a little bit of sense...

And I agree with the 'on the road to victory' statement.

Do you guys think there's a difference between success and victory? If so, do you think one applies to diabetes more than the other and why? (sorry for all the questions, I just enjoy the discussion - it's fun to use our brains :D)

Personally I think that success is more applicable because for Victory there must be a competition and alas this is not a competition.  But even without a cure, we certainly have not failed.  Like I said, for me it is about working with the disease rather than against it because right now we do not have a cure.  What we have are actions and consequences that we only have a minute amount of control over.  When I exercise I am working WITH my Diabetes, when I eat a Low Carb meal I am working WITH my Diabetes, when I take my insulin I am working WITH my Diabetes.  Whether we like it or not we have Diabetes and currently there is no way to make it go away.   When personifying Diabetes consider the old adage "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."  You have the tools to work with the disease, but you do not yet have the tools to fight it and win; that it is to say you have the tools to live a healthy, normal life with this disease but not the tools to make it disappear.


p.s. I noticed that on the Diabetes Camp forum you said that you did not enjoy it... Why not?  I really would like to teach water skiing at a Diabetes Camp.  Do any of them offer skiing?